Interesting to hear how much difference in IVO you got Hilly.........sounds like the Cam Dataruns are worth it.

A pity the IVCs dataruns are so complicated!............reckon someone may eventually work out a way to do it .........probably require a big hill and a lot of brake work!!

Burto.

 Hope to fit em and tune next weekend Hilly.

Let ya know how I get on!

Re the IVOs......I was tossing up whether to just use estimator or Datarun. After your result I will do the Dataruns I reckon. The "6" opens at 20 which makes it a 4 but at 23 it changes to 3!

Burto.

When you change rocker ratio's you change when the valve opens, that's how you get more lift. It also increases the duration as the valve opens sooner and closes later due to the increased ratio and that is just why we call the tool an estimator as it works off of the manufactures data but as you can see that is not what you always get. When we were testing the range we found was just way to big to make anything come out right all the time hence the name ESTIMATOR. DataMaster allows you to see what you really have on your build and get it right.

Once you program and run the test in DataMaster and find the IVO point your done. Enter that value into the calibration and move on with tuning. We cannot do anything about the dfferences you are seeing and this is just why we did what we did. When you run the test you get to see what is really there, no guessing but no reason as to why it's off either. Maybe the cams you got were not what you thought or who knows but some people are seeing just what the Estimator shows too. There is just too many possible reasons as to why things are off but the test takes care of all that. The adjustments are what they are and sure I would like a finer resolution and have it more precise but that's not how the code works. Now on to IVC, as you all can see there is only 3 setting points there and most all of you will be seeing setting 3, this again is due to the few choices that there is in the code. My guess is the IVC points were not designed for the camshafts that people are using so that's why they are so limited and again why I think most of us will end up with setting 3.

 The battery in my laptop has had the DICK, lasts about 10 minutes! So after checking prices I found it was cheaper to buy a 12 volt charger to suit it. I then bought a cigarette lighter type socket from local auto shop and hard wired it to the battery. I have it sitting just beside the data connector, so when I plug in the TTS interface, I also plug in the power supply for the laptop. 

Unlimited data collection now without the goddamn battery going flat!!

All in prep for vtuning new MT8 map after fitting new heads tomorrow.

Will let you know how it all goes!

Burto. 

 At least now Hilly I will be able to do 3 or so vtunes in the one session which is usually enough!

With a bit of luck I will have the whole job done by the end of the weekend!

Hangin out to see the results!

Burto.

 All right!..........big day in the shed today!

Got the new Larry's Heads installed, took my time and made sure all was right. Fitted up with Cometic .030 Head gaskets again.

Was pleased to note the BIG reduction in carbon build up since venting the crankcase breathers to atmosphere when I did the 103 kit! (Also running a leaner map since then!)

Wiring up the ACR wiring harness to suit the ACRs in the new heads was, to put it bluntly, a major pain in the arse!!!! ....but I got it done eventually.

The instructions are a little vague and there ain't a lot of slack in the existing wiring loom!

All I have to do in the morning is refit air cleaner, pipes and tank and then it's time to retune.

Although I have had great results so far with the MS176 (MT7) map, I think I will try the DPI176 as it is set for performance heads and higher compression.......... If I am not happy with it, I can always fall back on the DMS or even try the DPS.

Obviously I will enable the ACR settings and check that they are doin their thing!

Then I will do some camdata runs to find my ideal IVO setting and then set that........ the IVC will be set to 3 as the "estimator" recommends.

Vtune runs will follow..............hopefully the weather will be good to me!

Burto.

 

Righto, got the bike all back together this morning.

Wacked in DPI-176 and after  warming up engine did the camdata IVO recording.........analyser came up with the following........

Seems I have 2 inflection points to choose from, like Hilly. I went with the 3 as that is where the curve breaks at a steeper angle but maybe I could go with 2..........anyone with more knowledge......Steve?.....I would welcome your input here.

So adjusted IVO back to 3 and left IVC at 3 then proceeded to do vtune dataruns.

I got 3 done before running out of fuel just before finishing the 3rd. Seems the idiot light/kms to empty don't work while doing dataruns! Told me I had 54kms to go when she started coughing and then died!

Decided to call it a day.........3 x 30-40minute dataruns can get a little tedious!

Ended up with the following map.......

Will do another run or 2 next weekend to try and get the rest of those cells to 5% or less and then blend it.

The 12v power supply was brilliant........the laptop never missed a beat all day.

How does the bike run so far?.............definitely notice the extra power from the heads, exhaust note has changed somewhat, running fairly smooth with very little backfiring on decel. The ACRs work brilliantly! winds over real easy, just takes a little longer to fire but way less stress on starter motor, especially on those hot starts.

Pretty happy so far......but want to get the tuning complete before really testing her out!

(did notice that my slight traction problem is growing worse!!)

Burto.

 One thing I didn't do this time around was to set AEs to zero.........maybe that played a part!

Depending on which part of tuning guide you read.....section 4.3. "Select and set up the MT7 Calibration"  doesn't mention zeroing the AEs but section 4.14 "Vtune Flow Chart" does say to zero AEs.

Burto.

 Fuck I need to learn how to type faster as well!

Burto.

 Yes mate, I did!

Haven't had a real good ride to evaluate as yet, I spent most of the day vtuning and still have a way to go.........but after reseting map at the end of the day I did notice quite an improvement. More tuning should show some more as well!

Powering out of corners in 1st used to easily loose the arse end, now easy in 2nd as well!! Even 3rd gets a little twitchy!!!!!!

Burto.

 Hey Ando................have to fix up your avatar!..........your a long way from Mandurah now mate!!

Burto.

 Good stuff Ando!

Tell me.........are the Pannawonica riders still around those parts?......Haven't been over there since '87.

Burto.

 It's a long way from here Ando........but I hope to make it over there for that one day!!

Got some long service comin up in 2 years, was gonna go to the States, but just can't justify the cost...........thinkin of maybe headin West instead!!!!!

Burto.

Well it looks like your all having some fun with the new features. Just wait until you start adjusting the EGR Effect tables. These should be adjusted as you are doing Vtunes and NOT at the end. The answer about cam data selection points can be misleading on some camshafts that happen to open very close to a set point. What were looking for is the point just prior to the intake valve opening, so if your cam is opening just as the set point comes up you can get a little mislead until you understand it. On the graph posted above I would say you need setting #2. As #3 already shows the valve opening a very small amount, this is why you only see the small change but the valve has open a lot by setting #4.

People seem to be having trouble understanding what I am saying. To me it's simple and I've tried to explain it but I'm running a little lost as I do not know how to say it much simpler than I've done. No doubt someone will have a different way to say it that others might understand but if you do as I say I think you will begin to get a handle on it.

All one needs to do is setup the Vtune just as before. Take the Vtune data run and use the new EGR Effect TPS Analyzer on it. This will show you where in the VE tables that adjusting the EGR will have an effect. This Analyzer will show you a graph for the AFR based calibrations only and you need to overlay this on your VE tables. The VE values at the line and over to the left hand column will be effected if you change the EGR table for that cylinder. Things to the right of that line will change very little if any by adjusting the EGR tables. Now once you look at the values in the VE table you want to smooth them such that you have as few peaks and valleys on them as you can. So if you have a value at the line (60 kPa)and at 4000 RPM that let's say is 102, and then you look just to the left of it and that value is 115 you would need to reduce the EGR table for that cylinder at 4000 RPM. The amount you need to move the EGR is an issue since there is no direct formula for you. A rough ratio is 2:1 but you make an adjustment then go do another Vtune run and then check the results. The ratio of adjustment will vary based on your build and the fact that EGR by its very nature has more effect at lower RPM's and lighter loads. So there is trial and error when doing it. Now you need to look at this as a 3 dimensional adjustment. You want the lower RPM rows to flow into the high RPM rows with as few peaks and valleys as you can just the same as you want the VE values in one RPM row to flow from the left side of the VE table to the rightside of the VE table. Hope this helps.

Just as any other adjustment that is there you do not have to do it. It's just nice to have the necessary tools to do it if you need too.

 My mind keeps telling me to have a go at adjusting the EGRs! I have got the general gist of it, but the adjustments I need to make to achieve the desired results are unknown and can only be determined by trial and error!............If only I didn't have to "waste" 9 hours of every weekday earning a living.........I would have the time to play around with all this new fangled technology!

My heart says leave it alone for now..........as it will lead to heart ache in the short term!

Maybe wait till we can see some other peoples results and how they achieved them.

Plenty of smarter men than me playing around with the MT8s...............might wait and see what I can glean from them!!   

Burto.

I would have said 3 as well. Your graph looks very similar to one I run. The cal said 5 but when I run the cal run it turned out to be 4. Although it had the same very small break at 3. I stuck with 4 and all seems fine. I read what you said about copying the VE's etc over and done that with a MT8 file and all seems fine. Although I am having some problems at higher rev's, (runs out of power, it wants to pull but open the throttle and it goes no where.) I am narrowing it down to the relationship between the AFR table and PE mode. It could also be somewhere in a myriad of areas that are causing the issue. One change at a time.

As Dev1 said make only one change at a time or you will be chasing possible multiple errors. Also making a MT8 file out of MT7 and 8's and copying the tables over could cause an issue especially if they have changed the code within the tuning program between the two series of files. Unless you are a code monkey you wouldn't know. AS Oz has said as well, these take a couple of weeks to settle down, although if it has problems at the start then I doubt it would improve with age.

Mate keep going as I am watching this thread with interest, especially the EGR effect and how to get that done.

 As far as I know Hilly.......the injectors in my 2010 FB are 25*, 3.91gm/s.

Burto.