KC said, "comments that publicly damage a businesses reputation can potentially lead to law suits."

I don't see where anyone said that the above poster or anyone else actually did threaten to.

You have to take the good with the bad, the bad with the good. If someone asks me about a product or supplier and they/it are bad are you supposed to lie and say 'yeah buy one they're great'. I don't think so.

You need moderators to moderate the threads and posts which can mean deleting them or asking the user to revise their original post as it goes against the values in which this forum was conceived. I personally don't think you can ask people to lie and not give a bad review about a product or company. If not, you need to stop people saying good things about companies as well otherwise the whole premise of a forum, any forum, is BS if all we want is fluffy little stories about products and dealers.

Why can't a company have a representative here (if they take this site seriously which they obviously do by threatening legal recourse), either official or in a non-official capacity answering questions or concerns and set the law straight in such that they can provide the second side to a story so we don't assume the other sides story is gospel?

It's easy for us to sceem freedom of speech and censorship, but I can slag off a company in here and am (near) untouchable.
I am reading, KC as the owner of the site and Bano as mod are the likely gents sat in the dock if it all turns bad.

from Anonomous as a company in question, I read the poster didnot go back and arboutrate a fair fix to the problem, Flan made a good point that
If i had a shop and it didn't pre-deliver a bike properly i would be fuckin beside myself kicking freckle not shooting the messenger.
If the unhappy customer dont go back, they wont know there was a problem

Anonymous

I think you might be missing the point I was making....I am not expecting companies/dealers/shops to write an essay in reply to a complaint made on a forum.

I understand that you have a business to run and some dropkick makes an unsubstantiated complaint against your company which damages your reputation; when this happens, post a reply and say the complaint is out of order, and qualify your response by giving a few facts to substantiate your reply.

By doing this you will earn the respect of the doubters and probably end up with more customers than you could poke a stick at.

The complaints are generally whinges by MC owners who believe that they have been ripped off and positive feedback from the dealers replying to the posts and the reasons why some things were not supplied or delivered as per our expectations is what we want to read.

Your call ..............

Pearcy,

You've hit the nail right on the head.  I agree 100%.

 

 

Got a response from my guy (the owner of another forum). See below........

Any publisher has defences against defamation including:

Truth - If the statement is factually accurate.

 

Honest opinion - If not stated as fact, is a matter of public interest and based on material that is substantially true.

 

 

So you can't state an opinion as fact. And you can't state an opinion that is damaging to a person's reputation if the subject of the opinion is not in the public interest. I'd say that the value of services provided is a matter of public interest.

What you guys can do is post factually accurate reports; and/or post your opinion stated as opinion. "This is what he charges for that service. I think that is a rip-off because the usual charge is $x." or "I don't like the service there - I think they take too long and I've often had to go back to get problems fixed a second time" is OK, "that guy rips everyone off" might not be.

So, be as factually accurate as possible and state honestly held opinions about the value of services supplied and you are almost certainly OK.

It doesn't matter if someone has a chance to rebut this - and anyway they can get a forum account and post their responses.

Look up your state's Defamation Act - it is uniform legislation which means all states have similar legislation to this:

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE...D/DefamA05.pdf

The forum owner is not the publisher of the material anyway so he has no worries. The users publish their own material. Giving honest opinions about goods and services provided by businesses is not defamation. Otherwise magazines like Choice would be screwed.

Alternatively start your own forum.

here we go ANOTHER forum loosening its strides to a sponsor

and i thought this forum was different

one thing that is for sure , there will be another forum created if these changes are made and you wont have to worry about 21,000 people hearing the truth.

mark this day in the calendar as the demise of another good forum.

cheers

dont ya just hate people who use logic to kill all further debate

The other option is of course make it mandatory that all members have to sign up using real names/contact details and provide 75 points worth or credit card statements and passports before you can create an account. Then you can bag whom ever you want, and the offended party can personally take you to the cleaners.

All it takes is one person that perhaps works for the opposition to post in a few threads, and your rep can be tarnished forever (at least the life of the forums).

Just need to be smart how you write your whinge, and utilise the PM function.

to be honest - id like them to be tougher penalties and more bans .

Well I started this so ill give you all an update,
We love our bikes and Prize our freedom. So there is a fair degree of emotional attachment.
When we feel wronged or that someone has not done the right thing by us then there is the tendency to have a rant.
I posted some stuff to get some feedback and made the error of making the business identifiable.
AS I had yet to contact the business about the issue because i wanted some informed feedback as i am no mechanical expert.
In my opinion many heads are better than one when it comes to solving an issue.
And sometimes when we feel wronged the last place we want to go for help is to the people that we feel have wronged us.
Good product and service is about feel and that is a highly subjective thing.
When feelings come into play especially strong ones we do not always act with a mind to consequences.

I am sorry I did not confront the business directly but at the time felt at a disadvantage due to my lack of knowledge.
Hence coming on here to ask for help.

The business has since offered to revisit their work.
It was not my intention to harm their business I was just very angry about the situation.
I was needing some advice as to what was done so i could proceed well informed.
To those that gave advice i appreciate it.

As far as defamation goes i think the statistic is about only 5% of customers will ever tell a business when they feel like they got bad service.
But will tell everyone they know!
Its still an opinion nevertheless.

If i was a business being bad mouthed on a forum i would use my right of reply.
Or i would publicly invite the customer back to have the issue rectified.
I too would have been happy to apologise publicly if i had been shown to be in error.
I have learned some things maybe they have too.

Nighrider,

No dramas. I think this forum can still be used to get good outcomes from businesses but this issues has highlighted the need to be mindful of how negative comments on here impact on those busineeses.

I will stand by anyone who posts on here about a business that has clearly ripped them off. But as admins are the ones who take the risk there will be greater scrutiny of such posts in future.

I think your example shows how things can be resolved by contacting the business first and working through it with them.

 dont get me wrong ..... i like the forum , im not interested in looking for another one.

past experience tells me , when you cant name names , people go looking and break away forums are started.

in my experience most Sponsor are in the pocket of the Forum owner and thats how decisions are made and user get pissed off and go elsewere.

im not saying this is the case here...........and im not saying its not.

in fact i really dont give a fuck either way.

But i do LOVE the fact that if YOUVE been dudded by some robbing theiving bastereds that i will have a heads up and stay away.

isnt thats how we all got here ??? just double checking that we aint getting ripped off ??

my rant over

 

cheers

 

Our family owns a small business, we have been in it a long time and have a good name but alsdo are the tall poppies of that industry because of that. We have had people post on forums related to the industry we are in with negative comments and even our competitors have posted under false names making absolutely ridiculous claims.
In the early days we did the same to a form ie threatened legal action unless the post was removed. That foum suggested we pay for advertising with them. We didnt want to do that either but just wanted the lies removed. They got shitty and decided to ban or filter our business name on that forum. Forum posters then questioned why they couldnt post our name why it would only come up as xxxxx. The forum owner stated it was because of potential legal action. This created all sorts of assumptions and inuendo with the forum members. In the end more of a headache than it was worth....almost. As a business owner what do you do? Stand by and let people bullshit about your business? No. And who as a business owner has time to get on forums constantly looking for shit posted about their business or time to come on and post andswers etc etc. We're flat out answering the phones.

Well now we take a different point of view and really we are to busy to be bothered chasing about different forums seeing if someone is making up stories or one of our competitors is posting BS. We let it slide. When we get enquiries and people ask about something they have read about us on a forum we point out that you really shouldnt believe everything you read on the interent.
Im still not sure what the answer is in general. On one hand if you let it slide then as much if not more bullshit gets through as does the truth. In the end the internet and forums end up being almost worthless.Like a lot of so called 'technical' information and mechanical advice found on forums...absolutely wrong.
On the other hand if you censor everything then people say you have something to hide and the forum owner gets accused of being in someones pocket.
I guess the bottom line is you should have the balls to take it up with the business owner in the first instance and then if youre not happy go to the ACCC and other consumer protection agencies. If they really are a shithouse business then word will soon get around without the use of forums.
Also, you really cant believe anything you read on the internet, good or bad, about a business as you dont know who is posting the info. Many businesses post shit about others and good about themselves posing as general public. Its impossible to police.
IMHO I think the commercialisation of the internet has been its downfall and forums should be paid for by the members and not through advertising.
Just my 2cents worth.

I think good service is professionalism.

Service is about problem solving.

Every customer has a "problem" they are looking for a solution to.

Good service is listening to your customer finding out what their unique problem or issue is and then using your expertise to create a solution to that problem.

When you know what your customers expectations are it is very easy to use your product knowledge or expertise or skills to service their particular need.

If i do not listen to my customer and do what i think he or she needs then i have an unhappy customer regardless if what i have done is wrong or right.

The customer is paying and they have every right to expect what they have asked for.

If the business has not listened or not done what has been specifically asked for then they  have failed the customer. That is no professional.

This does not mean that I cannot offer the customer varied solutions or services that may meet their needs, it is then up to the customer to make the choice to go with my recommendations or not.

To just do what i think is best ignores the reason the customer is their in the first place.

This is what most businesses do not understand an I believe why most businesses go broke within the first 5 years.

I will recommend businesses that have served me well, based on the above definition even if i have purchased nothing from them.

 

If businesses are posting maliciously under false names then that is an offense.

If people are posting opinions as to their experiences with out malicious intent then that is not.

I still think people have a right to free speech if their intent is not malicious and they are expressing an opinion about an experience they have had.

 

I agree that the best way to deal with a business that has not done the right thing is to confront them directly and then approach the ACCC.

 

Sometimes it is difficult to approach a business with a complaint because the business does not listen and this equals bad service and pissed off customers who end up on here having a rant.

 

If i found my business being talked about negatively by an unhappy customer i would be contacting my customer to see what i could do to find a solution to their problem.

Most people are reasonable and will calm down if listened to and their grievance acknowledged.

 

 

 

I'm over it now, had a panadol and  good lay down.

Time to move on, so in future will only recommend the businesses to go too. So the shonky ones (and you know who you are) wont be getting any praise from me on this forum

So as Beeza said,

BRING ON THE GIRLIES, WOO HOOOOOOOO....!!!!!!!!!!     

Hope they do party tricks.

How does the owner of a certain bike shop know that one of his workers is going to do a cunt of a job on a customers bike? Not all shops are bad as in not sorting out a beef.  What about the shop that does, and sacks his worker for crook work, and there back on track again doing good work. But sites like this still have a post saying "John Citizens Hog Shop' is fucked,they fucked me bike  up,worst ever job done on it, rah rah rah whinge fucking whinge.  The grievance is still posted for everyone to negatively see. Even though the shop sorted out the problem long ago by sacking the dickhead.  I posted and edited a grievance about a shop, because I thought about what I actually said, later on. It's allright to spit out a whinge,but it's posted permanently.   It might not be illegal,but it's wrong, especially for the "good shops" that are busting their arses trying to earn a living respectively.     Face to face, word of mouth,etc. Not on a fucking billboard.                   Live To Ride  Fish To Live.       Furthermore,this thread suks, I'm not looking at it ever again, fuck it