Hello all

I need some advice with regard to a performance build for a 2009 Ultra Classic.  I plan to increase from 96 Cubs to 103, a set of Andrews 37 Cams and head work(flowed at 250cfm  and around 146 cfs velocity intake and 208 exhaust with 103 cfs velocity).  At present I have the high flow breather kit, Cat removed and Hooker Tune Flow Pipes fitted.
 

With the mods mentioned, I want good torque and mid range rather than top end as I would never use it.  I also dont want the fuel consumpion increased very dramaticly. Most of my riding is one up cruising.

What are the forums thoughts?  any coment welcome

regards

Dave

The heads are being done in the states by a bloke by the name of Kieth Dunn, the results quote are the end result of machinine etc. I will try and attach the flow chat.

Scotty, mentioned the 54H cams over the the 37. My understanding is thet they are similar but the 54 are a bit longer in duation. My question is with the longer duration, will it ve more beneficial for top end rather than torque?

Test Description:   2010-  Harley Davidson Touring heads w/chromoloy retainers & keepers, beehive .550 lift springs

              Intake valve diameter:  1.900 Exhaust valve diameter:  1.610

              Flow test pressure:   28”  

Exhaust to intake Port Flow Ratio:­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ 82%        Performance Notes: Added 18% intake volume    Added 19% exhaust volume

Heads are decked .013  to 83cc’s                                       Very high velocity flow rates.               

Test performed by:  Keith  Dunn

Hi m8, i can't coment on the head flow as all the flow testing i have for my heads are flowed @ 10" , but nothing wrong with testing @ 28" as can pick up small gains you don't see flowing @10".

but if you not interested in top end i would have just left the heads stock and had a good valve job on a sunnen or Serdi, with the andrews 37 they need more comp than stock to work well, did they flow your heads with intake manifold your useing on?

good luck mate

Scotty is right, Bob Woods has not been around Harleys that long, he was a car man ( big difference) he seems to Copy Harvey Cranes idea's, but if you asked he would say he don't. if you open valves fast and close them fast it's good for torque, but hard on valve train. you can still ride them anywhere just you have to pull them down for maintainance more offten & put up with the noise. s&s make good cams with large displacement in mind, Andrews make good cams too, Mike Roland designed some good cams for a company that mostly made chrome goody's, they call them Wild Things. Mike has lots of experience with Harleys and for many years, both street and racing, he understands what you need when you say touring, like touring you could ride Perth to Sydney and Back a few times, with Woods you would ride perth to sydney & hopefully back then rebuild. most don't really understand what they want. i don't and probably never will. but it's still fun seeing what happens. a cam change is not magic, in most cases it just moves the power & TQ around, but does not always give you more power or TQ. hard to explain.

Sometimes pipes can make more difference than a cam change. sometimes the manifold or throtle body- carb could make more difference.

if you really want grunt at revs below 4,000 and grunt that you can feel instanly, you won't be tuning on a dyno @ rpm to see what HP TQ it makes @ what rpm, you will only worry about the tune & the combination that can make the most TQ HP the quickest, so you will ask the dyno operator to just do timmed runs and use the combination that can make the most HP TQ in less than five seconds wide open throtle, you won't worry at all how much total power & Torque it makes as that is not important as under 4,000 rev your not going to ever use it.

Like at a Drag Strip you might think you want the most HP possible and just tune for HP useing RPM but what you have not taken into account is RPM does not tell you how long it took to make the HP & TQ it just tells you at what rev, so if you have a 180HP big twin that makes 180HP @ 6,600rpm but it took 13 seconds wide open throtle to get to 6,600 rev, it won't help much at the drag strip.

a lot of performance manufacturers hate it when you ask for a timed dyno ghrap as that will show just how quick a motor spools up.

sorry for the long winded post, i just like to tell it as it is.

PS. if anyone used Lindwebber Cams back in shovelhead days they would know all about agressive ramps that need super strong heavy valve springs to keep the followers following the cam lobes & wear everything out fast

Scotty

I don't really think that in this modern day and age that there are too many BAD cams out there.What is bad,is the applications that people use different cams in.And also how too many people think that a cam is a magical stick that will give them copious amounts of power.Again it comes down to the preparation of the build as a whole and not just the individual parts.What has to be taken into consideration with any performance build is,how each individual part will react with another part,and is there something that will perform better together,but not nenessarily have the best individual figures for that type of part.

Agree whole heartedly that we all have different ideas and ways of doing things,and that keeps the aftermarket industries in business.

As long as the individual is happy with their ride,it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks anyway.

nobody

hi krash , cheers for the rest of the year,  i just weighed myself i'am 64.7 kilo ive put some post mid age spread on  esp over xmas holidays  , when i was racing  twin sport 883/350 AJS classic bikes 7 yrs ago i was only 54 kilo's ,  i will try to lose some fat some how  at 54 yrs old  iam getting a fat gut & arse  that iam not use to carrying around, if you like 1 nite after feb when  the weather starts to cool down a bit we can go to wsid &  have some fun on your bike ,   in the mean time i will try not to eat as much,   BURP

Hey DaddyRacer that would be great m8! it's more than just your weight your a great rider with years of experience up your sleave, you still fit into the same leathers ok. i got a small cheap trick that might give more mid range, but as always will see what the black dyno thinks. i'll see you down the track & work out best time for you to get down WSID wed night.

Cheers and thanks again m8, we need more like you!

hi, krash i don't  know about being a great rider  i just like having fun on a bike no matter where its at , but most of the time i will try my best if there is not too much danger  in it  i get off on the thrill a good bike can give , i have a new race suit ,  ive never weighed this much in my life ,    catch you up,     BURP

Thanks Guys fior your input, I seemed to have opewned Pandora's Box with the Cam issue.  I have settled on the Andrews 37H Cams, SE adjutable push rods and ported heads as discuyssed.  Money is drying up rapidly can I wait on the big bore kit and only fit the heads and cams? i know the is nothing more inportant than cubic inches but will the performance inprovement with out the 103 kit still be noticible?

Dave

I'm waiting (im)patiently for my ride to come back. I'm getting the S&S 106and a 510g cam installed, should have it back this week, I'll let you know how it goes.

I've been assured that 'll be giggling like a schoolgirl.

MMM, schoolgirls, but that's another thread....

Yep, first thing I wanted sorted before we decided which way to go, I'm no mechanic, so the info on this forum has been invaluable, all good.

Great thread and great replies!

Keen to see how to S&S 106 build works out... thinking of heading down that path myself.

Berms,

just using stock heads for now, have to keep some money in the bank!!!

Hi one and all

I have made the decision and brought Andrews 37H cams for the 09 Uultra. Didnt think to order cam bearings to suit.  Does anyone have or know how to get the relative timkin of similar quality bearing numbers to suit the cam and the bike?  (Help needed here  Scotty)

Dave 

Is this number N 168 for the 09 models?

Dave