Howdy All,

About 12 month ago I had HD 103 kit fitted at Peter Stevens. Minor troubles aside, the engine feels stronger all around.

So where to from here? After speaking with boys at Eastern Big Twin, the suggestion is to flow the heads, install a set of Andrew cams and upgrade from SERT to PowerCommander.

What do you think fellows? While I can wrench enough to do my own servicing, I am not game enough to pull my engine apart. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Vladt

I did run away Scotty.

Lately I've been chatting to Peter Hallam from Hallam Boyz. The guy seems to be quite knowlegeable when it comes to engine work. (I have ridden couple of real jap rockets that he'd work on)
His suggests that there is no "replacement for displacement". Hence I am now considering 113 SE Kit.

That already comes with larger pistons/cylinders/manifold/throttle bodies and SE super tuner. Hallam would do all the work including boring out the cases.
Obviously I can just keep my current 103kit and just have my heads flowed and ported but it wont' be comparable to results from 113 kit.

So what do you recommend Gents?

what do you want the bike to do better???more torque on take off ,top speed ,hp ,1/4 mile???????

Definitely more torque from the take off and mid-range. Not interested in top speed or 1/4 mile runs

what comp are you running now? and what comp is the 113 kit??

and a big bore kit on its own might not do it..hell even the 1584 is a big motor i'd like to do one of these leave the bore std ,high comp pistons stg 111 heads o/s valves big intake/throttle body nice cams!!!
with a 103cube maybe look at higher comp bigger t-body stg2 heads o/s valves & some small cams for torque/throttle response.
or all the above with the 113 kit................................

also eastern big twin have done some pretty good motors i no a few guys who have hot bikes built by him mostly 80 cube evo's but he is very pro pc111
but he is a dyno jet tuner...

have a look at his posts or talk to Stix..... he is in the process of moving up from I think a 103.....

.

Lets call the following graph "Why a single HP figure is completely meaningless". It is two LS1 style engines that both make just over 300 RWKW (400 RWHP)

One has a lot of comp, a lot of cam, big heads, lumpy idle and doesn't start to do much till well up the rev range.

The other is dead stock with a whipple supercharger that more or less brings it from 346 cubes to a little over 500.

In a drag race there would be little difference due to the engine. It would come down to the better set up car and driver.

On the street there is no comparison at all. Have a look at how high that torque curve is at 2000rpm and how early good hp is avaliable. No need to change down to overtake. Diesel like power down low.

IMHO the secret to being happy with your engine build is to be VERY honest with yourself and what you want. 115 foot pound at 4000rpm is only 87.5 hp...bugger all. 90 foot pounds at 6500rpm is 111.3hp but if it is a peaky build as in the above graph and you never rev it past 4500rpm anyway the gutless engine will feel far faster than the high hp engine.

Vlad if you can take some 103's with mild cams for a ride. You will be surprised how suitable they will be for what you say you want.

cheers
Surly

Shit Dave,,,, I didn't relise your bike has that much hiding in there, it's a bit of a sleeper.... Next time we are out riding we are RACING

Still here boys. Been away from the site for a few days (did a Great Alpine Road run with great bunch of ppl), come back to see some "constructive" discussions going on here. Lets not turn this into "mine is longer/wider" contest.

It seems that whichever way I go (EBT or Hallam) there is about 6k worth of parts/work required to go to the next stage.

I have also been pondering on keeping the 103 bore (current compression is around 9.6:1),flowing the heads and getting the following:
25482-10 SE 259E PRO TWI, Cams
18404-08 KIT, Tapered AD, Pushrod
27797-07, KIT, Fuel Injection, Injectors
18013-03A, KIT Valve Springs
17053-99B, KIT Gasket, ENG

I am thinking that this might be a reasonable intermediate step to take. The costs all up should be around 3-3.5k, including all parts, head job and labour. Stix - How is your build going, how far away are you from completion? I might just hang back and look at the "monster" you creating first.

cheers
Vlad

Common boyz, lets kiss and make up

FTW69 - Appreciate your advice mate. EBT has a good rep and Brian definitely knows what he is on about! Saying that, he does come across as little biased towards Powercommander but there is nothing wrong with it, especially if it's a good product. Take it easy with Stix. He just shit-stirring a little. Stix has been a long time contributor here and his expertise also appreciated.

Stix- My gut tells me to wait for your build to complete and look at the results. Unfortunately patience isn't one of my virtues, but I am also bit tired from doing all the OT to save up for this engine build.


FTW69- Could you give us more detailed specs on your build please mate. Any costs if you don't mind? How reliable has it been so far? (If you don't want to post, PM would be great).

Vlad,

Found these elsewhere and hope they will be of some use

                 Lift             Duration               Timing                                   TDC Lift
SE-259E  .579"/.579"     246°/250°      Intake: 19° BTDC/47° ABDC         0.182"/.155"
                                                      Exhaust: 58° BBDC/12° ATDC

SE-263E  .637"/.637"      254°/258°    Intake: 22° BTDC/53° ABDC        0.196"/.168"
                                                     Exhaust: 64° BBDC/15° ATDC

SE-266E .658"/.658"       262°/266°     Intake: 24° BTDC/58° ABDC        0.208"/.178"
                                                      Exhaust: 69° BBDC/17° ATDC

255 cams  .550"/.550"     211°/235°      Intake: 6° BTDC/25° ABDC         0.079"/.070"
                                                      Exhaust: 48° BBDC/7° ATDC

www.andrewsproducts.com/PDF_files/Cams88_chain_07.pdf

I assume you have a 255 now?

I had the Andrews 54H in the 103 in my softy and have the 255 in the 103 in my Road King (This is called first hand experience FTW although EBT werent involved. I built one myself and the other was done by the dealer...thanks) The 54 suited the lighter bike but didnt come on till around 120kph in 6th where the 255 is already making nice power. If you were up it the 54 was definitely stronger but still signed off earlier than the rev limiter.

The 259 looks to be up around 50H / 55H size.

If I get the more power urge I would look at a 120 over the 113. You are going to split the case and replace the crank either way. Even at 1hp and 1ft/lb per cube you are 17/17 in front of the 103 versus 10/10 then 7/7/ down the track This also gives you the option of keeping total HP the same and using a smaller cam for a fat torque spread.

Hold off for stix's results.

cheers
Surly

if you do heads and cams i'd try to make sure that the combo would also suit the bigger bore as well then if your not happy you haven't wasted your cash..if your buying pushrods look into shaving the heads say 30 thou and buying shorter rods to suit this will bring up your compression..

Thanks for the detailed info Surly.
I do have 255 in at the moment. The driveability is excellent. Duration is perfectly suites to Harley's low revving twin cam. It comes on very early and stays on throughout most of the mid-range. Based on your table, 259 mightn't be the best candidate here. From what (little) I understand, it will be more suited to a higher compression, faster revving engine.

The feeling I get is that I will not be getting value for money by going only 1/2 way, keeping my 103 kit, flowing the heads and changing the cams over. (I will probably get adjustable pushrods this time around).

I might just wait for Stix to unleash his "beast" on us. This way, if his results are spectacular (and I have no doubt about it), I can attempt to replicate his setup.

hi, the S/E 259 cams  inlet 19/47 &exh 58/12 timings lobe centres work out to 104degs inlet & 113degs exh,  the lobe centres are a bit late for street unless 10.5 + comp is used thats at 103C.I.   the good thing is the lift is not to high  on the street its best not to go over 580" lift , if you can help it  because of valve train wear  unless its a short distance  type bike you can run higher lift 600" or more , 550" to 580"  works in stock 07-up without changing valve springs etc ,   S/E 257 cams  pulls a dyna along alright  if thats wot you got what type of bike is she & do you ride interstate or local etc , consider that the 259 might not work too  latter in the rev range & if the comp is not set right it would not pull a heavy type bike like a s/tail or dresser as such, i don't like personally  to set street bikes up  that have to tour  long distances at  9.8 C.Ratio or  higher  if you set it up good & as low cost on parts  it's even better ,

can't you guys talk electronic talk.... this shit is way over my head

the S/E 257 cams will fit  into the stock pushrods & valvesprings  with no modifications  in a 07up T.C. saving about 450 bucks & give more low & mid range power  & can still del 100+ HP , if that helps ,      have a good weekend

daddyracer, I am all for finding the right combo of cams and headwork. Since I already have 103 stage 2 kit installed, I am thinking of changing the cams over and flowing the head. I've spoken to Peter Hallam and he is keen to do the head work.
It seems that Andrews cams are quite popular. What your take on gear driven cams?

Which Andrew cams are good for mid-range torque?

hi, the good thing about andrews cams is 99% of them are a radial type cam its shape is more like & egg rather than straight flanked or a nearly square shape to put it as such a radial cam is much kinder too the engine &valve train esp @ higher revs  , i like the gear drive setup as i think  the cogs are too close to need a chain,  it's not as if the cams & there drive's  is like 9" away from each other ,+ the cogs are too small in dia & makes a very tight turn , by 4 cogs & 2 chains,  the hi-vo type chain is in there for epa noise rather than anything else the hi-vo chain is the quietest of all the differant type of drive chains ,   as straight cut gears will not pass epa as you will have 4 gears in the cam chest ,    if set up good  back lash etc , not much crank runout etc  for sure as you could pick up a free reving engine as less drag & friction  esp @ mid to high revs, they could have bevel cut gears but that would be more $$$ & have too much side thrusting or load on shims & bearings  so that just leaves the straight cut gears , e.g. harley has had straight cut gears for ever ,  1952 K model sporty 1957 up sporty only in after 2000 the sporty recived fine teeth gears to cut the noise down for the epa , but early WLA  1942 knuckle/pans /shovels  all have straight cut gear drive cams & breather gears , as long they are of strong design & fitted proper ,  i don't know what they $$,  but hallam does give a good head job , choose the  cam too the comp ratio you need  type of bike + type of rider etc hallam should be able too set it up as a package as such , if it's a streeter that tour's try not to go over 10 to 1 comp & 580 max lift , but if it's a friday nite speaial thats differant ,  i can help with cam choice  but i your $$ hallam to do the job lets see what cam he likes  + we can look at the specs , allways do your home work 1st  & only do it once  the best you can ,  at least  you can only  try your best                       excuse any spelling mistakes ,