Hi there.

Does any one have problems with engine pinging under load especially when hot? Bike is stock, and have tried different fuels plus octane boosters.

Hi Hogwash and welcome to the forum.

You are not alone,as there are a lot of people out there that have 07's that are pinking (the correct term) or surging etc.It is all due to the fact that late model Harleys are setup to meet stringent emission laws and are actually too lean,causing them to run hotter than normal,and other associated problems.Now how to rectify the situation will depend on whether you intend to keep the bike standard or what mods you intend to do?If you want to keep it standard then possibly the easiest way would be to see the dealer and get a download to make it a little richer.If you intend any mods,ie exhaust inlet etc then some form of injection upgrade might be your best bet.There is a plethora of information on this subject on the net so I won't even try to be more specific.But if you need to know more just HOLLA as there are people out here that I am sure will be more than willing to help with any information you need.

 

nobody

Hi Nobody and thanks for the reply.
I Am trying to keep it as stock as possible for now as this my first Harley and also the first bike Ive owned for fifteen years or so. Just enjoying racking up the kays at the moment.
I have spoken to the guys at the dealership and will probably go the download way, hopefully this will sort out the "Pinking" issues before the thing cracks a ring or holes a piston.

The reason you bike pings is due to a few things.

The stock cam is a short overlap. Keep that in mind as you read this.


The stock head pipe is longer in the front so the harmonics are better suited for low RPM. The rear head pipe is short so the harmonics of that pipe are better suited for high rpms. So with the low rpm you ride in under normal street instead of suction you get reversion or stand off in the rear cylinder as the rear pipe is out of sync with low rpm. That is one cause of the rear cylinder running hotter than front under street use. Where as the front pipe is better suited for that rpm range and it will run cooler.

Now the new stock cams for the 07 ( I will find the specs and post them we degreed one a few months ago) are under 10* of overlap. This small amount of overlap is an issue. As it is a very short period of time. The overlap cycle aids in cooling down the head. Previous t/c had 35-40 * of overlap in the stock cams. ( not all stock cams are the same)

Since the harmonics are off you do not get as much scavenging to cool down the heads with that short overlap.

Now onto header pipe length, The front cylinder head pipe length is longer so it works better under lower rpms so it will cool the head down more than the rear, but as you move into high rpm ranges the rear will start to cool more than the front as the harmonics are suited for the higher rpm range. As the front cycle harmonic cycle is out of tune in the higher rpm range.

315/405 that is the degree that a common runner use's to run at.

When the front cylinder is firing at 35* BTDC the rear piston is at 10* ATDC so your rear piston has only 315 to fire from the front cylinder firing.

Now the rear cylinder is firing at 35* BTDC your front pistons is at 80* BTDC so for it to fir again it has to go 405 again to fire. Add those up you get 720*

So what you get is a different bounce back wave on the intake runner and get uneven cylinder fill from front to rear.

This is where correctly ported heads shine. Our head is ported differently from front to rear to compensate for this different timing event. The old trick that was used was to skew the intake manifold from 1.5 -2.0 degrees to try to alter that and have a close cylinder fill. It does not work as well as using math to make the changes to the port. Where a head that is ported to compensate for this will balance out cylinder fill and run cooler. AS well tightening the port up will result in better atomized fuel resulting in less chance for ping, as you have lower head temps and then you can add more compression in there as well with no ill effects.

You have a wave that is bouncing off the intake valve. Now as that valve is opening the short pipe on the rear under low rpm is out of tune with the intake valve. SO when the valve opens instead of the ex sucking the intake charge in to purge the chamber and cool it down for the next cycle you get reversion and lack of scavenge this equals excessive heat build up in the head.

As well the overlap cycle is so short on the stock 07 cams your tune needs to be spot on. I am not saying that with a spot on tune you will fix all of this, what I am saying is that there is almost no degree for error. AS before you had a much longer overlap cycle the head pipe legnth was not as critical, so you had better cooling as they work hand in hand. So adding a cam with a longer overlap will help you out in that area. But you are still dealing with the 315/405 timing events and stock heads.

Now the front cylinder head pipe is much longer it is more in tune with lower rpm ranges. SO it is more likely to come into tune with a stock cam. Do not forget that you are battling the rear cylinder at low rpms. So they are fighting each other with the stock head pipe, short overlap, and stock heads.
All of this adds up to the hot running that is seen in the 07 models.

If you look at a head pipe that has a large legnth difference from front to rear it is going to be hard to tune it as the harmonics are way off from one to another. That is where a pipe with front and rear head pipes that are equal legnth perform so well.

I hope this sheds some light on the subject, I tried to keep it simple as there are 4 harmonic waves you are dealing with I listed one. But it keeps it simple and you can see what is going on with the stock bikes.

That is why using a package that is set up to work together makes so much sense. There are some fixes for poor exhaust pipes like adding a washer and skewing it to help with the scavenge cycle. If you get it so out of tune withthe harmonics you are fighting a uphill battle the entire way. This goes for improperly ground cams, incorrectly ported heads, improper exhaust systems.

I know that in our world that many times you cannot have it all but if you know what you are up against going in you are more likely to have a winner as a final build vs one that does not live up to what you where looking for.