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TC 88 cam cover off check

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  • Kato
    Kato
    3 years ago
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 16 Dec 2020 02:08 AM

    All twin cams have a cam tensioner for the inside short chain & another for the outside long chain, outside one what you can see easy, inside you can't see.

     I had the tensioner replaced & soon after the new tensioner fell apart. so I went s&s gear drive ( no gain in HP or TQ just less maintenance ). I don't own a twin cam now. but that gear drive still working ok as know new owner.

    KK 

    when you say you had the tensioner replaced was that both of them or just the outside one ??
    what's it set you back to go gear drive ??
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 16 Dec 2020 02:08 AM

    All twin cams have a cam tensioner for the inside short chain & another for the outside long chain, outside one what you can see easy, inside you can't see.

     I had the tensioner replaced & soon after the new tensioner fell apart. so I went s&s gear drive ( no gain in HP or TQ just less maintenance ). I don't own a twin cam now. but that gear drive still working ok as know new owner.

    Quoting Kato on 16 Dec 2020 09:55 PM

    KK 


    when you say you had the tensioner replaced was that both of them or just the outside one ??
    what's it set you back to go gear drive ??

    Hey Kato, both changed, but was the outside one that fell apart , this was a 2001 Dyna I got new & was not stock, I also had the crank pin slip & flywheels go out of whack . I used to ride it hard & drag race it ( ride to race ride home ). I road it 99,000k reving it to 7,200 at the track. it went hard for only 95" & it's still going just not ridden as hard now new owner.
  • Kato
    Kato
    3 years ago
    Quoting Kato on 15 Dec 2020 10:59 AM

    I was quoted $2200-00 to replace my cam tensioners. 

    Was told that the cam plate must come off to replace the rear tensioner .
     This in turn requires the pushrods to be removed and replaced . Then of course HD has a new cam plate that replaces the spring tensioned shoes to hydraulic shoes (VERY unusual for HD to have a conversion kit - not .....and thats a $1000-00 by itself FFS) 
    the spring loaded cam tesioners changed to hydraulic in 07 i think.
    Ive got 82,000 Kms out of my original cam tensioners but i  wil be replacing them soon (just not sure which way i should go) 

    Well .........an update .
    My rides done 82,000 Kms now and i could always check the front cam tensioner but not really the rear one (properly) 
    well this is the one at the rear (the shop just sent me the attached photo) 
    So im pretty glad i pulled my finger out and got this fixed as it wasnt going too last much longer 

    The photo i hope can be enlarged when you view it by clicking on it to open it up ( bloody hope you can get it bigger on your end ) 

    so they certaily are a item that needs to be fixed and i appear to be lucky in getting mine just in the nick of time eh 
    IMG_3761.jpg
  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    3 years ago
    You dodged a bullet there mate. 
    Was it making any noise?  Was that the first time you had the cover off and  looked? 
    Your photo is is excellent but fukin scary. 
  • UltraPete
    UltraPete
    3 years ago
    Quoting Kato on 15 Dec 2020 10:59 AM

    I was quoted $2200-00 to replace my cam tensioners. 

    Was told that the cam plate must come off to replace the rear tensioner .
     This in turn requires the pushrods to be removed and replaced . Then of course HD has a new cam plate that replaces the spring tensioned shoes to hydraulic shoes (VERY unusual for HD to have a conversion kit - not .....and thats a $1000-00 by itself FFS) 
    the spring loaded cam tesioners changed to hydraulic in 07 i think.
    Ive got 82,000 Kms out of my original cam tensioners but i  wil be replacing them soon (just not sure which way i should go) 

    Quoting Kato on 09 Feb 2021 07:37 AM

    Well .........an update .

    My rides done 82,000 Kms now and i could always check the front cam tensioner but not really the rear one (properly) 
    well this is the one at the rear (the shop just sent me the attached photo) 
    So im pretty glad i pulled my finger out and got this fixed as it wasnt going too last much longer 

    The photo i hope can be enlarged when you view it by clicking on it to open it up ( bloody hope you can get it bigger on your end ) 

    so they certaily are a item that needs to be fixed and i appear to be lucky in getting mine just in the nick of time eh 

    IMG_3761.jpg
    Jesus, just saved yourself an engine rebuild there. 

    My ultra had 49,000 on it when I got it, pulled it down during lockdown (gave me something to do) and replaced the tensioners with the Cyco/twin power ones. Think the pads were about $70/pair and that much again for the gasket set. I made a cantilever tool to relieve the tension on the inner tensioner so I could remove and replace it without removing the cams from the cam plate. Easy job and for the 2k the gear drive setup costs, I'll be happy to replace the pads every 40000km, just treat them like regular maintenance items. 
  • Kato
    Kato
    3 years ago
    Quoting beaglebasher on 09 Feb 2021 07:54 AMedited: 09 Feb 2021 07:56 AM

    You dodged a bullet there mate. 

    Was it making any noise?  Was that the first time you had the cover off and  looked? 
    Your photo is is excellent but fukin scary. 

    BB - no noise at all . Was going well i thought . I had taken the timing chain chest cover off a few times and the first tensioner always looked good . The secondary tensioner was always difficult to inspect and has clearly worn out . I have a 1800 km ride coming up so it was great timing plus i piut some SE cams in it (for more bang off the bottom) and a K and N air filter so it should go better i hope now 
  • Kato
    Kato
    3 years ago
    Quoting Kato on 15 Dec 2020 10:59 AM

    I was quoted $2200-00 to replace my cam tensioners. 

    Was told that the cam plate must come off to replace the rear tensioner .
     This in turn requires the pushrods to be removed and replaced . Then of course HD has a new cam plate that replaces the spring tensioned shoes to hydraulic shoes (VERY unusual for HD to have a conversion kit - not .....and thats a $1000-00 by itself FFS) 
    the spring loaded cam tesioners changed to hydraulic in 07 i think.
    Ive got 82,000 Kms out of my original cam tensioners but i  wil be replacing them soon (just not sure which way i should go) 

    Quoting Kato on 09 Feb 2021 07:37 AM

    Well .........an update .

    My rides done 82,000 Kms now and i could always check the front cam tensioner but not really the rear one (properly) 
    well this is the one at the rear (the shop just sent me the attached photo) 
    So im pretty glad i pulled my finger out and got this fixed as it wasnt going too last much longer 

    The photo i hope can be enlarged when you view it by clicking on it to open it up ( bloody hope you can get it bigger on your end ) 

    so they certaily are a item that needs to be fixed and i appear to be lucky in getting mine just in the nick of time eh 

    IMG_3761.jpg
    Quoting UltraPete on 09 Feb 2021 10:24 AM

    Jesus, just saved yourself an engine rebuild there. 

    My ultra had 49,000 on it when I got it, pulled it down during lockdown (gave me something to do) and replaced the tensioners with the Cyco/twin power ones. Think the pads were about $70/pair and that much again for the gasket set. I made a cantilever tool to relieve the tension on the inner tensioner so I could remove and replace it without removing the cams from the cam plate. Easy job and for the 2k the gear drive setup costs, I'll be happy to replace the pads every 40000km, just treat them like regular maintenance items. 

    I was lead to believe that you had to remove the cam plate to relieve the  tension on the inner tensioner so that tool you made sounds interesting .
    I too wanted to just replace the pads but was advised that couldnt be done 
    inspecteing every 40 k sounds good to me and quite a cost saving 
    althogh the cam bearings shoudl be changed as these are prone in these models to fail 
    in saying all that the hydraulic set up STILL needs the tensioner shoes inspected as these will still wear (albeit at a lesser rate ) after all this hydraulic set up is in all HD models post 2007 im told 
  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    3 years ago
    Quoting Kato on 15 Dec 2020 10:59 AM

    I was quoted $2200-00 to replace my cam tensioners. 

    Was told that the cam plate must come off to replace the rear tensioner .
     This in turn requires the pushrods to be removed and replaced . Then of course HD has a new cam plate that replaces the spring tensioned shoes to hydraulic shoes (VERY unusual for HD to have a conversion kit - not .....and thats a $1000-00 by itself FFS) 
    the spring loaded cam tesioners changed to hydraulic in 07 i think.
    Ive got 82,000 Kms out of my original cam tensioners but i  wil be replacing them soon (just not sure which way i should go) 

    Quoting Kato on 09 Feb 2021 07:37 AM

    Well .........an update .

    My rides done 82,000 Kms now and i could always check the front cam tensioner but not really the rear one (properly) 
    well this is the one at the rear (the shop just sent me the attached photo) 
    So im pretty glad i pulled my finger out and got this fixed as it wasnt going too last much longer 

    The photo i hope can be enlarged when you view it by clicking on it to open it up ( bloody hope you can get it bigger on your end ) 

    so they certaily are a item that needs to be fixed and i appear to be lucky in getting mine just in the nick of time eh 

    IMG_3761.jpg
    Quoting UltraPete on 09 Feb 2021 10:24 AM

    Jesus, just saved yourself an engine rebuild there. 

    My ultra had 49,000 on it when I got it, pulled it down during lockdown (gave me something to do) and replaced the tensioners with the Cyco/twin power ones. Think the pads were about $70/pair and that much again for the gasket set. I made a cantilever tool to relieve the tension on the inner tensioner so I could remove and replace it without removing the cams from the cam plate. Easy job and for the 2k the gear drive setup costs, I'll be happy to replace the pads every 40000km, just treat them like regular maintenance items. 

    Any chance you could get a pic of the gadget you made Pete?
    I will be attacking the same job hopefully sooner rather than later and any info or ideas can only be a good thing.
  • UltraPete
    UltraPete
    3 years ago
    Will grab some pics for you tomorrow when I'm out in the shed, I will say first that it is not pretty, just welded up some scrap.

    Kind of copied this fella.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLzXzsBJCR0
    Once you got it apart, you can work out what it needs to do... 
  • UltraPete
    UltraPete
    3 years ago
    Oh and Kato, Cam plate still needs to come out
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    Quoting beaglebasher on 16 Dec 2020 11:13 AMedited: 16 Dec 2020 11:54 AM

    The cam gear that shit itself at Ayres Rock was a bakelite type of stuff that was attatched to a steel boss that fitted on the camshaft. Never saw anything like it then or since.  The only way we could get it off was by holding a snapped in half hacksaw blade and sawing along the top of the keyway. Took us a fair few hours.

    We waited for four days for the new gear to come up from Adelaide but it never turned up so we got towed up to Alice Springs by some young pretend hippy dude driving a Kingswood. All he wanted was for us to fill his tank when we got to Alice Springs. And a couple of joints.

    Hey BB sorry slow reply, now I think of it, your right, just I was lucky enough not to have one go.
    hat would be no good getting stuck out there like that!!
    the S&S gear drive for the TC, robust!! I managed to have the crank pin slip & could barely turn motor by hand, that took out the oil pump on end of crank shaft . But the S&S gear drive was ok. I had to replace the crank, got the new crank pin welded in & that was a while back & lasted a while now  new owner put in a 120 inch
  • UltraPete
    UltraPete
    3 years ago
    Quoting Kato on 09 Feb 2021 07:37 AM

    Well .........an update .

    My rides done 82,000 Kms now and i could always check the front cam tensioner but not really the rear one (properly) 
    well this is the one at the rear (the shop just sent me the attached photo) 
    So im pretty glad i pulled my finger out and got this fixed as it wasnt going too last much longer 

    The photo i hope can be enlarged when you view it by clicking on it to open it up ( bloody hope you can get it bigger on your end ) 

    so they certaily are a item that needs to be fixed and i appear to be lucky in getting mine just in the nick of time eh 

    IMG_3761.jpg
    Quoting UltraPete on 09 Feb 2021 10:24 AM

    Jesus, just saved yourself an engine rebuild there. 

    My ultra had 49,000 on it when I got it, pulled it down during lockdown (gave me something to do) and replaced the tensioners with the Cyco/twin power ones. Think the pads were about $70/pair and that much again for the gasket set. I made a cantilever tool to relieve the tension on the inner tensioner so I could remove and replace it without removing the cams from the cam plate. Easy job and for the 2k the gear drive setup costs, I'll be happy to replace the pads every 40000km, just treat them like regular maintenance items. 

    Quoting beaglebasher on 10 Feb 2021 07:39 AM

    Any chance you could get a pic of the gadget you made Pete?

    I will be attacking the same job hopefully sooner rather than later and any info or ideas can only be a good thing.

    Here ya go mate. As I said, not pretty but it done the job for me. 
    tool.jpg
    ttool.jpg
    tttool.jpg
  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    3 years ago
    Thanks for that  Pete.
    You wouldnt believe it but I have something similar to that in the shed.
    If I  can find it I will take a photo.

  • Kato
    Kato
    3 years ago
    Ok - heres some photos of the tensioners and the complete set up 
    Had some SE 204 cams installed as well ...........gives a nice torque pull  from 60 kph (Plus a K adn N open style air filter) 
    Just caught it all in time thats for sure 
    If anyone hasn't checked theirs best you do 
    My rear Tensioner was looking very bad as shown below 
    Hope this all makes sense to you all ........not a good design by HD at all Im afraid 



    IMG_3761_1.jpg
    The rear tensioner
    IMG_3770.jpg
    New Fueling hydraulic tensioner
    IMG_3771.jpg
    New Fueling tensioner
    IMG_3773.jpg
    Hi Volume oil pump
    IMG_3774.jpg
    New Fueling hydraulic tensioner
    IMG_1016.jpg
    Front tensioner looking down from the top
    IMG_1017.jpg
    Front tensioner (side view)
    IMG_1018.jpg
    Rear tensioner
    IMG_1019.jpg
    Rear tensioner
    IMG_1020.jpg
    Rear tensioner (How clsoe was that from going metal on metal )
  • Soapbox2627
    Soapbox2627
    3 years ago
    that called, "getting your moneys worth"

    Why would you change them any earlier, good job
  • beaglebasher
    beaglebasher
    3 years ago
    Great pics  Kato.
    Thanks for putting them  up.

  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    Kato, like has been said, you got your moneys worth! 82k km.
    I did my TC95" at 20k & looked like that, then not long after the new HD outside tensioner , fell apart & lucky to get to it before parts went through my motor. was lucky enough to get a friend in USA to send out a new set of S&S gear drive & cam set to suit . never looked back , good upgrade if keeping your ride long term. & can get the Gear Drive Set & cams that match ( can't use chain drive cams as the gear drive turns cams other direction ) I was lucky as friend had a almost new set of Andrews gear drive cams, same grind I had been running for a while in chain drive . was interesting as I made no other changes and had my bike on dyno with chain drive, got it on same dyno when went to gear drive. same HP & TQ not one HP or one foot pound of Torque difference. but was trouble free from then on. I think main reason my motor was hard on the tensioners was the cam set I was using was not a bolt in set & needed different valve springs ( more valve seat pressure ).
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